coriolis888 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 I often travel to Brazil and Europe. Usually, a business class flight from the U.S. to those areas, if you search the site, is between $3,000 and $4,000. However, I have checked November through January of next year and found business class flights ranging near $15,000 and more than $17,000. What in the world could justify increased rates that are five times more than they were just a few months ago? Here is a screen shot of one of United's Brazil fares. The screen shot shows economy, premium economy and business class fares that all seem over priced. I do not believe people are paying that kind of money to fly business class from the U.S to Brazil. Maybe it is just wishful thinking on the part of United Airlines. 1 STOP 10:23 AMDeparting at 10:23 AM Arrives Nov 10 9:30 AMArriving at 9:30 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 18H, 7MDuration 18 hours and 7 minutes GRUDestination Houston, TX, US (IAH) IAHHouston, TX, US (IAH) —to 5H5 hours DetailsSeats Roundtrip United Economy (V) Roundtrip Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,470 Roundtrip $17,000 2 tickets left at this price Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 10:25 AMDeparting at 10:25 AM Arrives Nov 10 10:15 AMArriving at 10:15 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 18H, 50MDuration 18 hours and 50 minutes GRUDestination New York/Newark, NJ, US (EWR) EWRNew York/Newark, NJ, US (EWR) —to 3H, 59M3 hours and 59 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip $2,037 United Economy (U) Roundtrip $3,060 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $14,401 Roundtrip $17,877 Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 7:00 AMDeparting at 7:00 AM Arrives Nov 10 7:15 AMArriving at 7:15 AM LAX Origin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 19H, 15MDuration 19 hours and 15 minutes GRU Destination Chicago, IL, US (ORD) ORDChicago, IL, US (ORD) —to 4H, 58M4 hours and 58 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip United Economy (V) Roundtrip Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,470 Roundtrip $17,362 6 tickets left at this price Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 8:23 AMDeparting at 8:23 AM Arrives Nov 10 9:30 AMArriving at 9:30 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 20H, 7MDuration 20 hours and 7 minutes GRUDestination Houston, TX, US (IAH) IAHHouston, TX, US (IAH) —to 7H7 hours DetailsSeats Roundtrip $1,565 United Economy (V) Roundtrip $2,395 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,470 6 tickets left at this price Roundtrip $17,877 6 tickets left at this price Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 5:30 AMDeparting at 5:30 AM Arrives Nov 10 7:15 AMArriving at 7:15 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 20H, 45MDuration 20 hours and 45 minutes GRUDestination Chicago, IL, US (ORD) ORDChicago, IL, US (ORD) —to 6H, 26M6 hours and 26 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip $1,565 United Economy (V) Roundtrip $2,295 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,470 Roundtrip $17,077 6 tickets left at this price Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 8:15 AMDeparting at 8:15 AM Arrives Nov 10 10:15 AMArriving at 10:15 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 21HDuration 21 hours GRUDestination New York/Newark, NJ, US (EWR) EWRNew York/Newark, NJ, US (EWR) —to 6H, 25M6 hours and 25 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip $2,037 United Economy (U) Roundtrip $3,060 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,470 Roundtrip $17,877 Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 7:15 AMDeparting at 7:15 AM Arrives Nov 10 10:15 AMArriving at 10:15 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 22HDuration 22 hours GRUDestination New York/Newark, NJ, US (EWR) EWRNew York/Newark, NJ, US (EWR) —to 7H, 10M7 hours and 10 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip $2,037 United Economy (U) Roundtrip $3,060 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,470 Roundtrip $17,877 Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 5:51 AMDeparting at 5:51 AM Arrives Nov 10 9:30 AMArriving at 9:30 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 22H, 39MDuration 22 hours and 39 minutes GRUDestination Houston, TX, US (IAH) IAHHouston, TX, US (IAH) —to 9H, 32M9 hours and 32 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip $1,485 United Economy (W) Roundtrip $2,395 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,470 Roundtrip $17,273 3 tickets left at this price Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 11:58 PMDeparting at 11:58 PM Arrives Nov 11 7:15 AMArriving at 7:15 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 26H, 17MDuration 26 hours and 17 minutes GRUDestination Chicago, IL, US (ORD) ORDChicago, IL, US (ORD) —to 12H, 9M12 hours and 9 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip $1,502 United Economy (W) Roundtrip $2,239 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,661 Roundtrip $17,134 Not available Flight Information 1 STOP 11:09 PMDeparting at 11:09 PM Arrives Nov 11 7:15 AMArriving at 7:15 AM LAXOrigin Los Angeles, CA, US (LAX) 27H, 6MDuration 27 hours and 6 minutes GRUDestination Chicago, IL, US (ORD) ORDChicago, IL, US (ORD) —to 12H, 45M12 hours and 45 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip $1,502 United Economy (W) Roundtrip $2,239 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $13,661 Roundtrip $17,441 5 tickets left at this price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike carey Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 I consistently look for fares to places I'm not actively looking to travel right now and higher premium cabin fares are happening most everywhere that I look. You may find better fares on other airlines or flights with connections through other countries. My main destination that I check is the US and those fares are through the roof on Qantas and not much better on United or American. Singapore and Cathay seem to have better deals. I've been checking on Amex travel to get an idea of different fares then looking on the respective airline sites. Obviously my experience from here is not directly relevant to your N/S flights in the Americas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coriolis888 Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 I just looked at United for Sydney in January - almost $25,000 in business. In the past, I usually paid $5,000 or $6,000 and sometimes less. I cannot imagine anyone in his or her right mind paying those kind of fares United is asking. I have a trip to Vienna tomorrow. I bought the ticket two months ago. The trip is in business and cost around $3,500. I looked at the seat map for the flight, only about half of the business class flights are taken. I priced a similar ticket for to Vienna for January and the price is around $15,000. Someone at the airlines had their brain fried to think those kind of fares will attract passengers to fill the aircraft. I will be curious to see the seat map on those January flights. Maybe I am wrong but I cannot see anyone paying those high fares. Checking Quantas, the fares are less but still higher than they were last year when I went to Sydney. See below rates for Quantas in the screen shot below: Los Angeles20:30 Sydney06:35 Sat 20:30 06:35 Sat QF18 0 stops aircraft_39787 (widebody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_20Seatback on-demand videofresh_food_19Premium meals providedpower_6Power & USB outletsseat_52Full flat all aisle accesswifi_135No Wi-Fi Total duration 15h 05m Business Flex $9,994 Business Classic RewardNo seatsYou cannot add this to your flight selection. Los Angeles22:30 Sydney08:35 Sat 22:30 08:35 Sat QF12 0 stops Total duration 15h 05m Business Flex $9,994 Business Flex $8,994 Included bags Yes, Standard seats Not included, Request Points Upgrade Not included, Los Angeles20:35 Brisbane05:00 Sat 20:35 05:00 Sat QF16 0 stops 14h 25m Brisbane07:10 Sat Sydney09:45 Sat 07:10 Sat 09:45 Sat QF509 0 stops 1h 35m Business Flex $10,008 Business Classic RewardNo seatsYou cannot add this to your flight selection. Qantas Points earned None, Status Credits earned None, Changes 5,000 pts, Cancellations 6,000 pts, Included bags Yes, Standard seats Yes, Request Points Upgrade Not included, Los Angeles20:35 Brisbane05:00 Sat 20:35 05:00 Sat QF16 0 stops 14h 25m aircraft_5A330 (widebody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_20Seatback on-demand videofresh_food_19Premium meals providedpower_6Power & USB outletsseat_127Full flat all aisle accesswifi_135No Wi-Fi Brisbane07:40 Sat Sydney10:15 Sat 07:40 Sat 10:15 Sat QF511 0 stops 1h 35m aircraft_23737 (narrowbody)beverage_16Nonalcoholic beverages providedentertainment_23On demand entertainmentfresh_food_25Premium meal providedpower_3Chance of power & USB outletseat_69Recliner seat (94 cm)wifi_515Netflix streaming capable Total duration 18h 40m Business Flex $10,008 Qantas Points earned 17,350, Status Credits earned 245, Changes Yes, Cancellations Yes, Included bags Yes, Standard seats Yes, Request Points Upgrade Yes, Business Classic RewardNo seatsYou cannot add this to your flight selection. Qantas Points earned None, Status Credits earned None, Changes 5,000 pts, Cancellations 6,000 pts, Included bags Yes, Standard seats Yes, Request Points Upgrade Not included, Los Angeles21:05 Melbourne08:00 Sat 21:05 08:00 Sat QF94 0 stops 15h 55m aircraft_39787 (widebody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_20Seatback on-demand videofresh_food_19Premium meals providedpower_6Power & USB outletsseat_52Full flat all aisle accesswifi_135No Wi-Fi Melbourne09:30 Sat Sydney10:55 Sat 09:30 Sat 10:55 Sat QF430 0 stops 1h 25m aircraft_23737 (narrowbody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_23On demand entertainmentfresh_food_25Premium meal providedpower_3Chance of power & USB outletseat_69Recliner seat (94 cm)wifi_515Netflix streaming capable Total duration 18h 50m Business Flex $12,148 Price nearly goneQantas Points earned 17,350, Status Credits earned 245, Changes Yes, Cancellations Yes, Included bags Yes, Standard seats Yes, Request Points Upgrade Yes, Business Classic RewardNo seatsYou cannot add this to your flight selection. Qantas Points earned None, Status Credits earned None, Changes 5,000 pts, Cancellations 6,000 pts, Included bags Yes, Standard seats Yes, Request Points Upgrade Not included, Los Angeles20:35 Brisbane05:00 Sat 20:35 05:00 Sat QF16 0 stops 14h 25m aircraft_5A330 (widebody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_20Seatback on-demand videofresh_food_19Premium meals providedpower_6Power & USB outletsseat_127Full flat all aisle accesswifi_135No Wi-Fi Brisbane08:15 Sat Sydney10:50 Sat 08:15 Sat 10:50 Sat QF513 0 stops 1h 35m aircraft_23737 (narrowbody)beverage_16Nonalcoholic beverages providedentertainment_23On demand entertainmentfresh_food_25Premium meal providedpower_3Chance of power & USB outletseat_69Recliner seat (94 cm)wifi_515Netflix streaming capable Total duration 19h 15m Business Flex $10,008 Qantas Points earned 17,350, Status Credits earned 245, Changes Yes, Cancellations Yes, Included bags Yes, Standard seats Yes, Request Points Upgrade Yes, Business Classic RewardNo seatsYou cannot add this to your flight selection. Qantas Points earned None, Status Credits earned None, Changes 5,000 pts, Cancellations 6,000 pts, Included bags Yes, Standard seats Yes, Request Points Upgrade Not included, Los Angeles09:00 Dallas Fort Worth14:04 09:00 14:04 QF3198 0 stops 3h 04m Flight QF3198 is operated by American Airlines Dallas Fort Worth21:25 Sydney07:30 Sat 21:25 07:30 Sat QF8 0 stops 17h 05m aircraft_39787 (widebody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_20Seatback on-demand videofresh_food_19Premium meals providedpower_6Power & USB outletsseat_52Full flat all aisle accesswifi_135No Wi-Fi Total duration 27h 30m Business Flex $12,248 Qantas Points earned 17,200, Status Credits earned 220, Changes Yes, Cancellations Yes, Included bags Yes for Qantas operated flights and Yes for Partners operated flights, Standard seats Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Request Points Upgrade Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Business Classic RewardNo seatsYou cannot add this to your flight selection. Qantas Points earned None, Status Credits earned None, Changes 5,000 pts, Cancellations 6,000 pts, Included bags Yes for Qantas operated flights and Yes for Partners operated flights, Standard seats Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Request Points Upgrade Not included for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Los Angeles08:00 Dallas Fort Worth12:59 08:00 12:59 QF4145 0 stops 2h 59m Flight QF4145 is operated by American Airlines Dallas Fort Worth21:25 Sydney07:30 Sat 21:25 07:30 Sat QF8 0 stops 17h 05m aircraft_39787 (widebody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_20Seatback on-demand videofresh_food_19Premium meals providedpower_6Power & USB outletsseat_52Full flat all aisle accesswifi_135No Wi-Fi Total duration 28h 30m Business Flex $12,248 Qantas Points earned 17,200, Status Credits earned 220, Changes Yes, Cancellations Yes, Included bags Yes for Qantas operated flights and Yes for Partners operated flights, Standard seats Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Request Points Upgrade Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Business Classic RewardNo seatsYou cannot add this to your flight selection. Qantas Points earned None, Status Credits earned None, Changes 5,000 pts, Cancellations 6,000 pts, Included bags Yes for Qantas operated flights and Yes for Partners operated flights, Standard seats Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Request Points Upgrade Not included for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Qantas Points earned Status Credits earned Additional information Changes Additional information Cancellations ‡‡Additional information Included bags Standard seats Request Points Upgrade 17,200 220 Full fare conditionsBusiness FlexUse the plus sign key to jump to the button to add this flight to the cart. – – 5,000 pts 6,000 pts Full fare conditionsBusiness Classic RewardUse the plus sign key to jump to the button to add this flight to the cart. ‡‡ No fees apply where you are entitled to a refund or alternative flight under the Australian Consumer Law, equivalent local law or Conditions of Carriage. Business Flex $12,248 ADD TO TRIP Los Angeles15:26 Dallas Fort Worth20:25 15:26 20:25 AA1331 0 stops 2h 59m Flight AA1331 is operated by American Airlines Dallas Fort Worth21:25 Sydney07:30 Sat 21:25 07:30 Sat QF8 0 stops 17h 05m aircraft_39787 (widebody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_20Seatback on-demand videofresh_food_19Premium meals providedpower_6Power & USB outletsseat_52Full flat all aisle accesswifi_135No Wi-Fi Total duration 21h 04m Business Flex $12,248 Qantas Points earned 17,200, Status Credits earned 220, Changes Yes, Cancellations Yes, Included bags Yes for Qantas operated flights and Yes for Partners operated flights, Standard seats Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Request Points Upgrade Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Business Classic RewardNo seatsYou cannot add this to your flight selection. Qantas Points earned None, Status Credits earned None, Changes 5,000 pts, Cancellations 6,000 pts, Included bags Yes for Qantas operated flights and Yes for Partners operated flights, Standard seats Yes for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Request Points Upgrade Not included for Qantas operated flights and Not included for Partners operated flights, Ontario (Ontario International)14:41 Dallas Fort Worth19:35 14:41 19:35 AA2635 0 stops 2h 54m Flight AA2635 is operated by American Airlines Dallas Fort Worth21:25 Sydney07:30 Sat 21:25 07:30 Sat QF8 0 stops 17h 05m aircraft_39787 (widebody)beverage_9Premium alcohol & beverages providedentertainment_20Seatback on-demand videofresh_food_19Premium meals providedpower_6Power & USB outletsseat_52Full flat all aisle accesswifi_135No Wi-Fi Total duration 21h 49m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike carey Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 @coriolis888 I assume those QF fares are USD round trip. [Oops no, they're one way!] Did you do the searches on QF's US site because it's hard to tell with the way the formatting dropped out in the screen shot? [Looks like it was QF's.] (I did an Amex search for LAX-GRU 10 Nov-24 Nov and a LATAM fare came up for about $6K AUD in Biz via BOS. There were a bunch at similar fares some biz, some mixed (biz+premium Y).) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike carey Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 6 hours ago, coriolis888 said: I just looked at United for Sydney in January - almost $25,000 in business. In the past, I usually paid $5,000 or $6,000 and sometimes less. I cannot imagine anyone in his or her right mind paying those kind of fares United is asking. I looked at flights LA/Syd 10-24 Nov on Amex travel and there were flights for around $US10k R/T in J on Philippine Airlines, NZ, Asiana and Fiji, still not cheap but better than QF or UA that you checked. Amazingly Syd/LA fares were available for a little over half that. We usually draw the short straw. I checked SYD-JFK (sometimes about the same as SYD-LAX sometimes more) and Air NZ was a bit more, $AU9.6k with the outbound flight on the new NZ2 non stop from AKL to NY (that was an Amex platinum fare deal, otherwise it would be $AU16k). I'll never see a fare like that when I actually want to travel! I'm now more inclined to take flights with airlines other than my habitual choices when there's such a big fare difference. UA seems not to want your business for your trip to GRU, someone else surely does! coriolis888 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ Axiom2001 Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 Try using reputable discounters. They can be googled by goggling "discount first class/business class fares. I used the services of one discounter in 2018 when I flew from San Francisco to Barcelona. ..was quite pleased with what I obtained, and since I cannot fly coach for any long distances, I'll continue to use a discounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MscleLovr Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 I’ve no insights into your particular fare-dilemma @coriolis888 but I think the problem of sharply higher air fares is now widespread. Airlines want to recoup their pandemic-related losses. They have cut routes and the frequency of flights. Fuel costs are much higher. Those flights that are scheduled are generally departing full. People are keen to travel again. I think the key is to travel at times that are not very popular. Also I check regularly the routes that interest me, and if I see a “good fare” I book it immediately. I haven’t yet booked to travel to Australia next year as the fares are so high (and their Summer weather may be very poor with La Niña). I have booked to travel to South Africa later this year; business class at $6000 as there is no First class. I avoided traveling over Xmas and NYE as fares then are 50-60% higher. 9 hours ago, SirBillybob said: Put the savings into other trip components. Eminently sensible IMHO SirBillybob and mike carey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ BenjaminNicholas Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 It's really simple guys. During shutdown, routes were taken away en-masse and flight crews were retired. Airlines still aren't anywhere near where they need to be on both issues and unfortunately, it's not a quick fix. Bottom line, this means less flights, fewer seats, packed planes and higher prices. Get used to it. It's going to be the new normal until at least first quarter 2023. SirBillybob, + Vegas777 and thomas 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike carey Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said: It's really simple guys. During shutdown, routes were taken away en-masse and flight crews were retired. Airlines still aren't anywhere near where they need to be on both issues and unfortunately, it's not a quick fix. Bottom line, this means less flights, fewer seats, packed planes and higher prices. Get used to it. It's going to be the new normal until at least first quarter 2023. Nailed it. There will still be sweet spots and ways around the high prices on popular routes (e.g. @SirBillybob's Bogotá work around). I see opportunities from here, not many, but they are there, and I hope that they still are when I want to book!! SirBillybob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike carey Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 minute ago, SirBillybob said: I should add that the Montreal-Bogotá biz is not a fluke. It’s that price all current and 2023 dates. To be clear, I wasn't suggesting it was a fluke. The demand on YUL-GRU will be different to YUL-BOG so those fare differences will happen, and once you're in South America, US/CA fare dynamics are irrelevant. It's an example (not always repeatable) that indirect fares can be different to direct ones. SirBillybob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeThomas Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 … and on top of it all, the Federal government under the Democrats and while Trump was President gave billions of dollars to the airlines with no strings attached and no requirements to repay. This not only saved the airlines and their employees (a good thing), but also saved the shareholders (a bad thing). The bank bailouts during the financial crisis were different. Banks were required to repay. While shareholders were saved, they were significantly diluted (fair). The Federal government is now the insurer of last resort for all types of risk… acute weather events, pandemics, financial crises… it’s not sustainable. The airlines owe their existence to the largesse of the American taxpayer. I have fond memories of AA domestic first class air travel during the ‘80s. Shrimp cocktails, hot meals, ice cream sundae carts 😂🍾🍸🥃. Now you’re lucky to get a bag of chips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coriolis888 Posted October 11, 2022 Author Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said: It's really simple guys. During shutdown, routes were taken away en-masse and flight crews were retired. Airlines still aren't anywhere near where they need to be on both issues and unfortunately, it's not a quick fix. Bottom line, this means less flights, fewer seats, packed planes and higher prices. Get used to it. It's going to be the new normal until at least first quarter 2023. On many routes you are correct and your reasoning is sound. However, United's flights to Brazil have not stopped as did many other destinations. UA's flights leave from Dallas, Miami, Newark and Houston. They go every day of the week. I just looked into getting my January trip. United wants more than $17,000.00 for business class while some flights they want in excess of $8,000.00. I went through a dummy booking so that I could see the seating chart for the flights I wanted. In all of business class on the two flights I checked, only two seats on each flight were assigned or ticketed . That is not a good showing for United with its inflated prices for future flights. I think someone at United's management (and some other airlines) is doing too much wishful thinking if they believe passengers are going to pay out eight to more than seventeen thousand dollars for a seat. I predict some heavy duty flight sales or special promotions on the horizon. Edited October 11, 2022 by coriolis888 mike carey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeThomas Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Just booked LHR/ORD on June 11 AA Business Class (it’s 2 class service) for approx $2,100. Full fare is $9,000+. Did it through my Cunard travel agent. I was worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ BenjaminNicholas Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 6 hours ago, MikeThomas said: … and on top of it all, the Federal government under the Democrats and while Trump was President gave billions of dollars to the airlines with no strings attached and no requirements to repay. This not only saved the airlines and their employees (a good thing), but also saved the shareholders (a bad thing). The bank bailouts during the financial crisis were different. Banks were required to repay. While shareholders were saved, they were significantly diluted (fair). The Federal government is now the insurer of last resort for all types of risk… acute weather events, pandemics, financial crises… it’s not sustainable. The airlines owe their existence to the largesse of the American taxpayer. I have fond memories of AA domestic first class air travel during the ‘80s. Shrimp cocktails, hot meals, ice cream sundae carts 😂🍾🍸🥃. Now you’re lucky to get a bag of chips. This is somewhat true, but not the whole story. Many airlines are now leveraging their frequent flier programs in order to repay the government. This from AA: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-american-airline-debt/american-airlines-unveils-7-5-billion-debt-sale-to-repay-government-loans-idUSKBN2B01AR So, yes, some airlines are paying back. And good on them for making the attempt. + Vegas777 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ BenjaminNicholas Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 3 hours ago, MikeThomas said: Just booked LHR/ORD on June 11 AA Business Class (it’s 2 class service) for approx $2,100. Full fare is $9,000+. Did it through my Cunard travel agent. I was worried. $2.1k is a deal for J on that route. Well-done 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ BenjaminNicholas Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 4 hours ago, coriolis888 said: On many routes you are correct and your reasoning is sound. However, United's flights to Brazil have not stopped as did many other destinations. UA's flights leave from Dallas, Miami, Newark and Houston. They go every day of the week. I just looked into getting my January trip. United wants more than $17,000.00 for business class while some flights they want in excess of $8,000.00. I went through a dummy booking so that I could see the seating chart for the flights I wanted. In all of business class on the two flights I checked, only two seats on each flight were assigned or ticketed . That is not a good showing for United with its inflated prices for future flights. I think someone at United's management (and some other airlines) is doing too much wishful thinking if they believe passengers are going to pay out eight to more than seventeen thousand dollars for a seat. I predict some heavy duty flight sales or special promotions on the horizon. First, you can never trust an airline's seating map to give you an idea about current sell-through. There are tons of holdbacks and only a site like Expert Flyer can really give you a full picture of how full a cabin is at any given point based on fare class, oversells, etc. Airline pricing has always been dynamic. While a traditional 'sale' is possible, what you'll probably see is fare taking a dip if the algorithm senses seats not selling. It's still several months out. If this were 30 days out, I'd agree with you on outlook. Give it time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeThomas Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 27 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said: This is somewhat true, but not the whole story. Many airlines are now leveraging their frequent flier programs in order to repay the government. This from AA: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-american-airline-debt/american-airlines-unveils-7-5-billion-debt-sale-to-repay-government-loans-idUSKBN2B01AR So, yes, some airlines are paying back. And good on them for making the attempt. The day before fare was $1,800. I am crossing from NYC to Southampton on the Queen Mary 2. Cunard gets great airfares if you travel with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousByNature Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Are there any sites that would be recommended for finding lower cost business class/first class tickets? Or is it necessary to check every airline? I know of sites like Kayak that search multiple airlines, but I'm not sure if they specialize in finding the best deals for business and first class seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetlow Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 I travel a lot for years and have deep understanding of airline pricing algorithms and the mechanics air pricing of it as a geeky self interest . Depending on the length of the flight ( usually on flights above 8 hours or more ) I usually travel premium cabin . it became a side hobby like solving a riddle - If you are spending that much you should get a premium ( aka luxury ) travel agent who specializes in those kinds of tickets . A corp travel agent will work well also . My personal knowledge tends to equal these folks but I use one mainly for access to their booking tools which are not available to the consumer . - Brazil is wide open and covid is largely over . Back when covid was raging in brazil and people were scared i went anyway , after I got vaccinated. In those days it was possible to get Business class for less than 2k from the states , those days are over. accept it . - the cheap ( when I say cheap most people regard business class travel as a luxury ) so i will say relatively cheap tickets have an advance purchase requirement of 90 days sometimes , so you should really think about booking these 120 days before - there is a lot of pent up demand also, so there are places where the airlines are not even releasing discount seats on any day ( i’m thinking australia) because the airlines are looking to manage their capacity and maximize their revenue after two years of heavy losses I have always wondered if anyone else was a geeky as me when it comes to this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coriolis888 Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 Return on Jan 29, 2023 Economy Premium Economy Business Business(fully refundable) First Flight details section. Seats details section. Flight Information 1 STOP 10:15 PMDeparting at 10:15 PM Arrives Jan 30 9:25 AMArriving at 9:25 AM GRUOrigin São Paulo, SP, BR (GRU) 16H, 10MDuration 16 hours and 10 minutes LAXDestination Houston, TX, US (IAH) IAHHouston, TX, US (IAH) —to 2H, 15M2 hours and 15 minutes DetailsSeats Roundtrip $10,627 United Economy (S) Roundtrip $10,992 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $12,673 Roundtrip $18,017 Not available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coriolis888 Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, coriolis888 said: Return on Jan 29, 2023 Economy Premium Economy Business Business(fully refundable) First Flight details section. Seats details section. Flight Information 1 STOP 10:15 PM Departing at 10:15 PM Arrives Jan 30 9:25 AMArriving at 9:25 AM GRU Origin São Paulo, SP, BR (GRU) 16H, 10MDuration 16 hours and 10 minutes LAX Destination Houston, TX, US (IAH) IAH Houston, TX, US (IAH) —to 2H, 15M2 hours and 15 minutes Details Seats Roundtrip $10,627 United Economy (S) Roundtrip $10,992 Mixed cabin Roundtrip $12,673 Roundtrip $18,017 Another Another example of the airfares between the U.S. and Brazil. Look at the above schedule I got for the days I plan my Brazil trip in January. Who in his right mind would pay eighteen thousand dollars for a round trip flight from Los Angeles to Sao Paulo in Business Class? Worse though, who in his right mind would pay $10,627 for the same flight in couch. Sitting up all night in a tiny seat. Something bizarre is happening with the prices for air tickets. Of course, shopping around on different dates will yield a somewhat smaller price but the price will still be outrageous. I just happened to pick the days I plan to return to Brazil. $18,017 does not included taxes nor does it include internet/wifi on the plane. The strange thing is the flights are full. pubic_assistance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ BenjaminNicholas Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 11 hours ago, coriolis888 said: Another example of the airfares between the U.S. and Brazil. Look at the above schedule I got for the days I plan my Brazil trip in January. Who in his right mind would pay eighteen thousand dollars for a round trip flight from Los Angeles to Sao Paulo in Business Class? Worse though, who in his right mind would pay $10,627 for the same flight in couch. Sitting up all night in a tiny seat. Something bizarre is happening with the prices for air tickets. Of course, shopping around on different dates will yield a somewhat smaller price but the price will still be outrageous. I just happened to pick the days I plan to return to Brazil. $18,017 does not included taxes nor does it include internet/wifi on the plane. The strange thing is the flights are full. It's not strange if people are paying it and pax loads remain full. Supply and demand. That's the nature of the airline business. The price that shocks you is perfectly normal for someone else. + Vegas777 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ azdr0710 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) thanks very much, @SirBillybob , for your comments on this alternative way to Brazil.....yes, for these relatively short flights, I wouldn't sleep much and don't need all the bells and whistles......only negative I'm finding is the only BOG-GIG flight is overnight and I'd arrive half-dead....a lie-flat seat (if even available) would help, but I don't want to only sleep for four/five-ish hours.....I see more flights offered from BOG-GRU at more civilized hours!......could be a way for me to see Sao Paulo for the first time and check off Colombia, too! Edited November 12, 2022 by azdr0710 mike carey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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