Time is money - Providers and Clients need to respect Time.

[Trick]

 

Hopefully being that you are a White provider, people will now take this issue more seriously instead of trying to scapegoat the ethnic providers by suggesting they “find other lines of work, are crazy for taking deposits, and aren’t happy”.

 

 

Mocha, Mocha, Mocha, it is not the COLOR OF YOUR SKIN that is causing the negative reactions you are getting from this forum. It is your attitude and your tone, your sense of entitlement, your contempt for clients, your refusal to see other people’s perspective, and now the race card that you are playing that is turning you into a pariah in this community. You may hate me for this but I just have to say it. Your earlier reviews online say you are a very nice guy. Unfortunately, that is not the impression you are leaving here.

[MrMattBig]

Respect begets respect. Most members here want to be of help to both clients and providers. After all, we are in a “symbiotic” relationship.

 

It is not the complaints about flaky clients and providers that inflame the discussions here. We are well aware of that problem. It is the negativity and the toxicity that is thrown around that messes up amicable discussions. Even now this respectful thread is being hijacked with the race card. ?‍♂️

Hopefully we can steer away from that.

If I may slightly play devil's advocate. Some negativity and toxicity may come about because others don't know how to deal with the negativity that may be thrown their way first. For example, I am still a bit salty on the tone a 411 thread on me went in the past. I got torn to bits over things that got misinterpreted, things that were party due to the hosting service I was using for my website, and inexperience. But when it came to help or suggestions, it was lacking and almost all criticism without constructiveness. Some posters on that thread have since apologized personally, and I have moved on and was never really looking to defend myself to the point of becoming negative, but only explain certain circumstances. I have always been a problem solver, so when negativity is thrown my way, instead of fighting back with negativity, I figure out how to stop it in the first place. Others may do the opposite. And still others are set in their ways because of how they have been conditioned to meet negativity with negativity over the course of this cycle.

 

To be clear I am not making excuse for anyone, because part of this job is having the ability to deal with all the negatives. But, if we were all a bit more helpful and not as quick to point blame or jump to conclusions, there would be a lot less negativity here.

Edited July 31, 2019 by MrMattBig

[+ oldNbusted]

Closest thing to it now is an ad on Craigslist selling items.

 

I would, and have, given away stuff rather than deal with the CL insanity.

[Mocha]

To be clear I am not making excuse for anyone, because part of this job is having the ability to deal with all the negatives. But, if we were all a bit more helpful and not as quick to point blame or jump to conclusions, there would be a lot less negativity here.

 

People here have a pack mentality. When one person doesn’t agree, they all want to disagree. They don’t even try to take the time to understand fully what the person is referring to. They turn a whole topic into something negative by bringing irrelevant things to the forefront.

 

I invite anyone who is a naysayer about our issues, to try being one for a day. I don’t care what age or how hot your body isn’t. Try putting up an ad with your phone number and photos and email out to the public, and then report back. Closest thing to it now is an ad on Craigslist selling items. I’ve bought 2 cars from Craigslist, and each time I meet the buyer, they are so exhausted from having to deal with people not showing up or not having the money, they practically just give me the car because they see I always look like money.

 

Imagine doing that everyday, for years. It wears on you.

 

This the same thing I was talking about in the hotel thread and the same one in the deposit thread. 2 threads that turned nasty, and yes it is about race. It’s always about race. When @TylerandAce posted their thread about flakes on Twitter, nobody came in and crapped on their thread. It doesn’t matter if the message is delivered with a bow and ribbon or wrapped in foil. It’s the same message.

 

I already know how this thing goes. It’s evident in the people who post and the ones who don’t. The BL posters here like @hypothetically who don’t catch much flak, do so because they very rarely start any new threads, and if they do it’s very light in nature. Many don’t even come back to respond because they’re afraid of being treated like they do me. Because that’s how they want us to be here.

 

The only ones who can make a post on here asking people to adjust their behavior, are...well, I won’t pull the R card. But it’s he majority of the posters on the forum. And at this point, if anyone wanted to see my real life personality, they should have booked their hotel and travel in advance like I did to Palm Springs...and got to meet the in person me, like 50 other people did.

 

So anything else is null and void. But anyhow, I’ll walk away because I don’t want to distract from the ultimate goal of this topic.

[+ Oaktown]

Here is the funny part;

 

The client states he dialed the code ( He did not). Now he's asking for " Complimentary hour for free" because I didn't buzz him up...

 

I have a feeling this client's MO is to flake on a provider and then ask for a free hour.

 

Here's an even funnier part;

 

Didn't you make a client stand in your apartment complex hallway for over 10 minutes while you kept saying through the door that you were almost ready?

 

Fine. You go stand out in a NOHO apartment complex 3rd floor hallway while shouts come from behind a door "just give me a little more time'...

Edited July 31, 2019 by Oaktown

[MrMattBig]

People here have a pack mentality. When one person doesn’t agree, they all want to disagree. They don’t even try to take the time to understand fully what the person is referring to. They turn a whole topic into something negative by bringing irrelevant things to the forefront.

 

I invite anyone who is a naysayer about our issues, to try being one for a day. I don’t care what age or how hot your body isn’t. Try putting up an ad with your phone number and photos and email out to the public, and then report back. Closest thing to it now is an ad on Craigslist selling items. I’ve bought 2 cars from Craigslist, and each time I meet the buyer, they are so exhausted from having to deal with people not showing up or not having the money, they practically just give me the car because they see I always look like money.

 

Imagine doing that everyday, for years. It wears on you.

 

This the same thing I was talking about in the hotel thread and the same one in the deposit thread. 2 threads that turned nasty, and yes it is about race. It’s always about race. When @TylerandAce posted their thread about flakes on Twitter, nobody came in and crapped on their thread. It doesn’t matter if the message is delivered with a bow and ribbon or wrapped in foil. It’s the same message.

 

I already know how this thing goes. It’s evident in the people who post and the ones who don’t. The BL posters here like @hypothetically who don’t catch much flak, do so because they very rarely start any new threads, and if they do it’s very generally speaking. Because that’s how they want us to be here.

 

The only ones who can make a post on here asking people to adjust their behavior, are...well, I won’t pull the R card.

 

Pack mentality is everywhere, not just here, and only a relatively small amount of individuals have the mentality to do their best to avoid it.

Yes, race can be a factor in our business. I had one inquiry from a Caucasian male who got upset because I don't speak Spanish and fit into his stereotype of a Hispanic provider. However, you continually ignore and dismiss the fact that the tone that you present yourself with is the reason why some "crap" on your threads.

 

" It doesn’t matter if the message is delivered with a bow and ribbon or wrapped in foil. It’s the same message."

It might be the same message, but the primary point of any message is to reach its target and be interpreted as intended, so the delivery does matter. Interpretation of the receiver ends up being the reality, regardless of how the sender views the message.

 

I even look back at that same 411 thread about me, and realize if I had had the mind to frame my responses better, but I was still holding on to a regular world overnight job with great benefits, and probably was a bit fatigued and distracted when responding.

 

What I was trying to communicate is that there are some actions and traits within escorts that may be circumstantial and should not be final grounds to judge the merit of an escort. And then there are some that should be. And clients and humans everywhere should be a little more open minded and inquisitive to find the difference. But if you keep lacking humility and an open mind yourself to the reality you have a hand in creating as well, you are most likely going to keep being met with the same attitude.

[Mocha]

Pack mentality is everywhere, not just here, and only a relatively small amount of individuals have the mentality to do their best to avoid it.

Yes, race can be a factor in our business. I had one inquiry from a Caucasian male who got upset because I don't speak Spanish and fit into his stereotype of a Hispanic provider. However, you continually ignore and dismiss the fact that the tone that you present yourself with is the reason why some "crap" on your threads.

 

" It doesn’t matter if the message is delivered with a bow and ribbon or wrapped in foil. It’s the same message."

It might be the same message, but the primary point of any message is to reach its target and be interpreted as intended, so the delivery does matter. Interpretation of the receiver ends up being the reality, regardless of how the sender views the message.

 

I even look back at that same 411 thread about me, and realize if I had had the mind to frame my responses better, but I was still holding on to a regular world overnight job with great benefits, and probably was a bit fatigued and distracted when responding.

 

What I was trying to communicate is that there are some actions and traits within escorts that may be circumstantial and should not be final grounds to judge the merit of an escort. And then there are some that should be. And clients and humans everywhere should be a little more open minded and inquisitive to find the difference. But if you keep lacking humility and an open mind yourself to the reality you have a hand in creating as well, you are most likely going to keep being met with the same attitude.

 

That is true, and I’m working on that.

I realize some conversations and messages just aren’t worth getting fussed over, but when you’re suffering from LBT like me, it can be hard to tolerate:

 

https://medium.com/@ben_mmari/low-bullshit-tolerance-lbt-47eb29c53bf6

 

 

That’s also why I’m using this deposit script strategy as well. Once I feel that feeling of temperature change going over my body, and their texts are what’s causing it, I’m just going to leave the payment information, and tune them out until I hear that cash app tone go off. “CaChing ? “

[rvwnsd]

Here is a mini-rant,...

Who wants buttered and who wants plain popcorn? Salt or salt-free? (Sorry, I can't help but be an asshole sometimes)

 

...I have been a massage therapist for about 8 years or so. I relocated from LA/SF to DC to help take care of my mom who is suffering from lupus....

I'm sorry to hear about your mom's illness, but glad she has a son who uprooted his life, moved cross-country, and is taking care of her. You're a good man.

 

... I started Escorting on and off for a few months. I just don't understand people; I was scheduled with a client and confirmed today. Fifteen mins ago he said I was flake because I won't give out my apt number to clients off of Rent.men. ... When I confirm with a client they have my address and the code to buzz in. I always meet the client in the lobby for the safety of both of us.....

 

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. In fact, when an escort comes to my place for the first time I typically meet them at the entrance to my apartment complex. There are three reasons for this:

1. Parking is complicated and I don't want them to get ticketed or towed
   
2. The building is easy to find but the elevator lobby can be a challenge to locate for first-timers
   
3. I'd rather not give my apartment number to a stranger.
   

 

... I have had issues where clients would be high or just creepy. As a business owner, I can dictate my hours and how I operate for my own safety.....

Yup, you can and you should. Just like clients can and should do the same.

 

Sidebar: If memory serves correctly, there was a thread a long time ago where a prospective client complained that the escort was a flake because he would not give his address before the meeting. the prospective client wanted to Google Maps the place and drive there so he wouldn't get lost the day of the appointment. His complaint was not well-received by the Forum denizens.

 

... I am starting to question if I should even bother advertising on Rent.men. I never get this many no show or flakes practicing massage.....

 

A couple of things about this. First, where else do you intend to advertise for escort services? Second, it seems that escorting attracts a higher proportion of flakes than does massage therapy. That's probably because sex work is still considered by some to be illicit and tawdry, which to them justifies messing with sex workers.

 

... I am pleading with clients if you have second thoughts, or you decided that you don't want to hire someone. Just send an email and cancel with notice. In my case, I am using this money to take care of my family and would rather book clients who actually respect me and my time....

 

It is very nice of you to take the high road and consider these people to have gotten cold feet. Unfortunately, your message is probably being delivered to the wrong audience Many, if not most, of the members would not behave in that way.

 

I have had a few who didn't want to bear the awkwardness of waiting outside the door or in a lobby. Understandable.

That though then becomes the responsibility of the client to communicate that concern and then the escort reassuring that they will accommodate their concerns.

 

I see their point, but then again they don't want you to come to their place at all

 

Here is the funny part;

 

The client states he dialed the code ( He did not). Now he's asking for " Complimentary hour for free" because I didn't buzz him up....

Funny? That's insane.

 

...I have a feeling this client's MO is to flake on a provider and then ask for a free hour.

Would he suddenly be OK with you meeting him in the lobby if you gave him a free hour? That's just crazy.

 

...

 

Going forward I will not book any clients from the message service on rent.men. If you want info and more pictures you can text me. ...

Bad move. Make that "very bad move." Here's why:

1. There are perfectly legitimate prospective clients who want to use the RM messaging service. There are various reasons for this, including guys not wanting to hand their number out to a stranger, guys who can't always stop what they are doing to reply to a text, and guys who just feel more comfortable using email. (Granted, RM's messaging service isn't "real" email)
   
2. A guy who wants to jerk you around will do so no matter what communication method you use to communicate with him.
   
3. RM does not accept reviews from clients who did not contact the escort via the RM messaging service. To many Forum members, no RM reviews is a red flag (even though the reviews' reliability is dubious) and refusing to book clients from the RM messaging service will appear to be an attempt to avoid getting reviewed.
   

I'd suggest that you accept messages via the RM service and switch to text before booking. If that's your intent, your statement did not convey that.

 

 

...I am also removing my private photos as people use rent.men to replace what was tumblr.

To me, private vs public photos is not a big deal. What is a big deal is when a provider advertises, ahem, "characteristics" and is afraid to show them. It sends a signal that the advertiser does not possess quite the "characteristics" he is portraying in his ad.

 

It sounds like you are pissed off (rightfully so), are blowing off steam , and in the process might not be making carefully-considered decisions. You might want to keep your ad as-is for right this very minute and revisit this tomorrow or the next day.

[Daniel84]

Here's an even funnier part;

 

Didn't you make a client stand in your apartment complex hallway for over 10 minutes while you kept saying through the door that you were almost ready?

 

lol Dear Oaktown you are still bringing this up after 5 years??

 

I amended for my ways and errors years ago and apologized that I was not on time and made you wait outside of my apt for 5-10 mins as I wasn’t ready. I apologized to your numerous time and even sent you messages (You actually blocked me ) to clear the air for your grievances.

 

Can we just let it go and move on. It’s been half a decade and I am tired of apologizing for making you wait 10 mins.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Daniel84

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

lol Dear Oaktown you are still bringing this up after 5 years??

 

I amended for my ways and errors years ago and apologized that I was not on time and made you wait outside of my apt for 5-10 mins as I wasn’t ready. I apologized to your numerous time and even sent you messages ( you ignored) to clear the air for your grievances.

 

Can we just let it go and move on. It’s been half a decade and I am tired of apologizing for making you wait 10 mins.

 

You've moved on and clearly, he hasn't. Keep taking the high road.

 

Let him stew

[DDad4ynger]

Here's an even funnier part;

 

Didn't you make a client stand in your apartment complex hallway for over 10 minutes while you kept saying through the door that you were almost ready?

Didn’t Danny address that a few years back? I’m pretty certain he’s fixed all that

[DDad4ynger]

Here's an even funnier part;

 

Didn't you make a client stand in your apartment complex hallway for over 10 minutes while you kept saying through the door that you were almost ready?

Didn’t Danny address that a while back? I think he’s cleaned all that up quite well. He’s quite punctual and put together these days.

[Mocha]

Bad move. Make that "very bad move." Here's why:

1. There are perfectly legitimate prospective clients who want to use the RM messaging service. There are various reasons for this, including guys not wanting to hand their number out to a stranger, guys who can't always stop what they are doing to reply to a text, and guys who just feel more comfortable using email. (Granted, RM's messaging service isn't "real" email)
   
2. A guy who wants to jerk you around will do so no matter what communication method you use to communicate with him.
   
3. RM does not accept reviews from clients who did not contact the escort via the RM messaging service. To many Forum members, no RM reviews is a red flag (even though the reviews' reliability is dubious) and refusing to book clients from the RM messaging service will appear to be an attempt to avoid getting reviewed.
   

I'd suggest that you accept messages via the RM service and switch to text before booking. If that's your intent, your statement did not convey that.

 

 

 

To me, private vs public photos is not a big deal. What is a big deal is when a provider advertises, ahem, "characteristics" and is afraid to show them. It sends a signal that the advertiser does not possess quite the "characteristics" he is portraying in his ad.

 

It sounds like you are pissed off (rightfully so), are blowing off steam , and in the process might not be making carefully-considered decisions. You might want to keep your ad as-is for right this very minute and revisit this tomorrow or the next day.

 

Good point about the review and message preferences. Accept a message by email, but don’t meet without a phone number, even if the guy claims to be married to Anderson Cooper and has to “Uber discreet” (not an actual event).

 

But otherwise: is it just safe to say: can we just let the man run his communication the way he sees fit? It seems whenever a provider suggests not doing something or doing something that’s different than conventional or given the option to do, people are quick to give 100 reasons why they shouldn’t do it.

 

For awhile I had rentmen emails disabled. The only reason I turned them back on, is because when people looked at my private pics, I could message them and see if they were interested. Now, my private gallery pics are for sale only, so I don’t really have to do that much.

 

It similar to how a4a is. I exchange a couple of messages, then I leave my number (which is already posted) and walk away.

 

You've moved on and clearly, he hasn't. Keep taking the high road.

 

Let him stew

 

Them be the same posters that be like, “You're mean, I’m never going to hire you!” But then the ones they do hire, they go back and talk smack about them later.

 

I thought I graduated high school back in 2005, why am I still seeing this behavior in 2019 ?

Edited July 31, 2019 by Mocha

[hypothetically]

The BL posters here like @hypothetically who don’t catch much flak, do so because they very rarely start any new threads, and if they do it’s very light in nature.

 

I also know my audience, @Mocha.

I choose to pick my battles because beating a dead horse with a stick isn’t my jam. I catch flak going “tooth n’ nail” with providers on this forum all the time and quite frankly, I don’t give a shit. I gain nor lose, but they read my comments and maybe once in a blue moon someone will deem them insightful. My casual participation on this forum is nothing more than an exercise in my patience and writing.

[+ Oaktown]

Let him stew

 

Stew? I tell facts, then let them rest where they may, "B".

[jjkrkwood]

I also know my audience, @Mocha.

I choose to pick my battles because beating a dead horse with a stick isn’t my jam. I catch flak going “tooth n’ nail” with providers on this forum all the time and quite frankly, I don’t give a shit. I gain nor lose, but they read my comments and maybe once in a blue moon someone will deem them insightful. My casual participation on this forum is nothing more than an exercise in my patience and writing.

 

I thought escorts had each others backs, or were supposed to ? Clearly Mocha didnt get that memo... Hypo is an asset to the site, makes his point in a clear and concise way without "ranting", and NEVER brings the site "down"... Others should take a page from the Hypo playbook. And for a guy so incredibly HOT, he's not a douche !

[woodworker]

I hired Daniel for many massages when he was in Weho. He was reliable, flexible, and not a clock watcher. A decent, hard working man.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Stew? I tell facts, then let them rest where they may, "B".

 

Build a bridge. Get over it. @Daniel84 made amends.

 

It says more about you that you're still using this against him a decade later.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Benjamin_Nicholas

[beachboy]

I'm sorry that @ Daniel84 & Dominiking & other fine masseurs & escorts have such a lot of flakiness to deal with.

I can understand clients feeling nervous when meeting a new provider & I must admit I've nearly flaked in the past. However I always remind myself that the guy has reserved the time for me & this is his living so have always turned up & usually glad I did.

Sure I've had disappointments but I booked his time so I've always paid him as agreed & simply not rebooked.

Usually I've met great guys, been treated with kindness & respect & had an amazing time. The last guy I was seeing was stella & with him I had the best sex of my life even though he was significantly younger than me-that didn't seem to matter to him. Unfortunately he seems to have moved on & is no longer advertising so I sent him a good luck text & wished him well.

Now I'm having to look for a new guy & go through the nervous butterflies again when I do, but there's no way that will cause me to flake!

Good luck to you & hope clients treat you with the respect & courtesy you so richly deserve

[Mocha]

My casual participation on this forum is nothing more than an exercise in my patience and writing.

 

I agree, Same here!! ?? At the same time, I know there are a handful of my fanss$ I have on here, who don’t get involved and remain in the backdrop...but they’re always willing to give helpful advice when needed.

 

At the same time, people need to realize that some of the things they say can be taken in offense, or are simply uncalled for. Somebody (preferably an administrator who is immune to rebuttals) needs to be able to step in and say, “hey, that’s not right to say that. Offer a more positive alternative”.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Mocha

[Trick]

My casual participation on this forum is nothing more than an exercise in my patience and writing.

 

I agree, Same here!!

 

I GIVE UP!!!

 

Self-awareness is very elusive these days

[Frequentflier]

I always meet someone in a public area. I don't see how that could make anyone awkward. Whether in a lobby, restaurant, whatever there's nothing awkward about two people introducing themselves or saying hello along with a handshake. And if you're meeting someone at their home its completely normal for them to have an additional step to safeguard their privacy/home.

 

As for flakes, there are some on both sides. This is a great site to be informed about flakes, learn when to doubt a providers legitimacy and stay out of trouble.

[John]

Daniel84 said:

"Going forward I will not book any clients from the message service on rent.men."

I hope you don't. I use the message service to shield my phone number. Otherwise I can get a sudden SMS "Was gr8 w/ u las nite. Hope u call again" at an inopportune moment.

Every business has difficult and flaky customers. They are just part of the territory. 40 years in publishing I've seen plenty. Just be glad Amazon hasn't bought Rentmen-------yet!

[+ Oaktown]

Every business has difficult and flaky customers. They are just part of the territory. !

 

It is a cost of business.

[Trick]

I’ve been thinking of a possible solution this problem of flakey clients. What if the provider made some kind of a waiting list, especially for first time clients. Say he books Client Number 1 for 7pm. Then if Client Number 2 also wants to book that time, he will be told that he is on a waiting list and he will be notified if his booking goes through. Several clients can be on the waiting list so the provider can have a safety net against flakes.